What qualities do companies look for in leaders? — Q & A on Breakthrough Leadership

Speaker 1:

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Craig Anderson:

Hi, welcome to Q & A on Breakthrough Leadership. I'm Craig Anderson.

Lou Quinto:

And I'm Lou Quinto.

Craig Anderson:

Today, we have a special guest. Jacqueline Martinez. She is the Director of Search and people consultant for HRD Advisory Group and the host of the Coffee to Wine Podcast. Lou and I have a lot of opinions on what makes a good leader. We thought it would be a great episode to interview somebody who actually helps companies find great leaders for their companies. So I expect we're going to learn a lot from this interview today, Lou.

Lou Quinto:

I think we'll find out that we've probably been correct most of the time.

Craig Anderson:

We'll just say 99% of the time. Feels good.

Lou Quinto:

Give us a little leeway there. Right?

Craig Anderson:

Just a skosh. So enjoy the interview with Jacqueline Martinez. All right. Well welcome to Q & A on Breakthrough Leadership, Jacqueline. Great to have you here today.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Thank you for having me. It's so nice to be here with you both.

Craig Anderson:

Absolutely. Well, Lou and I do a lot of talking about what leaders should do on this video blog. We have a lot of opinions.

Lou Quinto:

And so you're here, Jacqueline, to verify that we're either saying the right stuff or we're totally messed up and we should close up shop right away and never do this again.

Craig Anderson:

So not too much pressure.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Well, we'll see where your fate lies.

Craig Anderson:

That's right. That's right.

Jacqueline Martinez:

You put a lot of stock in me.

Craig Anderson:

We do. We do. So, no, we're really glad to have you here. You are a professional who works with companies to help them hire high level executives into their companies. And so I thought who better to help us break this down and really dig into what are company's really looking for in leaders in general, and then even more so right now with all the COVID and remote and all the changes going on culturally around work right now, how is that impacting things?

Craig Anderson:

So we just wanted to pick your brain for a little while and kind of get your thoughts on what's going on in the world out there. Does that sound pretty good?

Jacqueline Martinez:

So much fun. Thanks.

Craig Anderson:

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. All right. So ... go ahead Lou.

Lou Quinto:

I was just going to say, so, Jacqueline, tell us, what are the crucial areas of leadership that companies are looking for when they're hiring a leader today?

Jacqueline Martinez:

Well, I mean, as you both know, and you've lived through this yourself, companies will always be looking for leaders who have walked the walk, who have confidence in what they've done, who know the industry that they're walking into, right, and have proven stories of how they've led. But what we're looking for now are more of those, what we'll call, soft skills. And they're not soft because they're weak. They're actually soft ... They're very difficult. They're soft-

Lou Quinto:

We should them solid skills. We really should.

Jacqueline Martinez:

We should.

Lou Quinto:

Let's start a trend.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Solid skills.

Lou Quinto:

We'll call them solid skills from now on.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Well, that's one thing I admire about the two of you. I've watched your previous conversations and you talk about the intangible. And I think that's why we call them soft skills because they're not as tangible. They're not as easy to measure. And so sometimes people find that scary, because what's unknown is scary. So it's interesting. Our firm did a really recent leadership survey when we were kind of in the thick of things with the chaos and we asked, "What are the top three leadership skills needed right now?" And those top three were empathy, compassion and communication. Solid skills.

Lou Quinto:

Wow. Definitely solid skills.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. In all things [crosstalk 00:00:03:57].

Lou Quinto:

Particularly that first one. Empathy.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Empathy.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. I think Craig and I ... What, Craig? We've talked about empathy I think in ... since COVID started. I think it's been in every other episode that we've done on leadership during COVID times, is empathetic leadership.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. It's difficult to put yourself in someone else's shoes when you can't see them. And especially now. We can't really see each other. We see a little screen on our computer, but what we don't see is behind the screen. The children. The dog. The spaghetti everywhere. The whatever it is. Everybody has something. And so being bold enough to go to that, maybe, difficult place and ask those difficult questions or, at least, be open enough, and flexible enough, to go there with your teams. That's where we are looking right now. And so that's why, especially in hiring and in talent searching and sourcing, it's hard to measure those skills. So it, in essence, changes how we hire too.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah. And so how do you measure that, this way, where it's just kind of this weird impersonalized community. It's personalized, but it's also just ... you're not in the room with them. You don't have that kind of chitchat up front. The chitchat and you get to observe them. How are you measuring that right now?

Jacqueline Martinez:

Absolutely. Yeah. I could go on a way too long of a rant on hiring, especially right now. So I won't. I'll spare you. That's for another conversation. But especially with high level leaders, right now, you just spend time getting to know them, and sometimes takes multiple conversations. Right? Or longer conversations. There was one leader who had a full day of conversations back to back. So, literally, eight hours of video calls. I'm not saying that's the right way, but it was a way and it worked. And-

Lou Quinto:

Well, if we were in an office situation, he would have spent eight hours going from office to office to office in that same thing. So.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Exactly. And people have been doing that for a long time, but it ended up being a really, really great match. And so I think, in that situation, it absolutely worked.

Craig Anderson:

No kidding. That's amazing. What ... go ahead, Lou.

Lou Quinto:

No, I was just going to say, it's funny because you used a phrase there, Jacqueline, that we just spoke about in a previous interview that we did about not being able to directly tie soft skills like empathy, like communication skills, compassion, to the bottom line. Particularly if I'm an accountant, I can't see the money that we're spending to hire someone that is strong in these areas and then say, okay, that salary equates to this increase in the bottom line.

Lou Quinto:

And I'm sure you know, when it comes to learning and development, that's hard for most companies to make that connection, to justify that this is why we should spend this money. Well, here you're hiring somebody and so that's more than just hiring one training class that Craig and I do. You're investing in somebody. So is there a different philosophy now on that?

Jacqueline Martinez:

Well, I have a philosophy on that, and I have this conversation with leadership teams, and I'll call it alchemy. So this is, I think, another crucial factor that companies are really looking for in leaders that their hiring. And when you think of alchemy, you think about a process of taking something ordinary and turning it into something extraordinary in a way that maybe seems like magical or it can't be explained easily. And that's something similar in leadership.

Jacqueline Martinez:

So right now, what we really need are transforming values, company values, into action and turning what we want to do, our visions, our goals, into realities. Our obstacles and the hard things in front of us into opportunities to learn and innovations. And those, they aren't things that we can just do. It does take a lot of planning. It takes special people. It takes rallying the troops, literally and figuratively, and, in short, that's why I call it alchemy.

Jacqueline Martinez:

I mean, it's really a unique individual who has the ability to lead themselves and lead their teams through change. So I think it starts with the self. I think it starts with the individual and then ... because you can't pour into anybody until you've poured into yourself, and I know both of you know that from experience. So really being able to put that into bottom line dollars, into numbers, I think it's a difficult task. It's a tall order, but starting to look for individuals with some key traits that are able to do those things, that's crucial.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. Yeah. Craig, I'm going to ask another question. I just want to unpack this a little bit more. Okay.

Craig Anderson:

Sure.

Lou Quinto:

When it comes to empathy, compassion, communication skills. During these times, that's how we begin this conversation. Is empathy, compassion, and communication skills a fad right now that we're jumping on the bandwagon when you're looking for executives that companies are asking you to find for them, or do you truly believe that the skills are here to stay? And so it's not like we're getting into flavor of the month or flavor of the six months right now that we've been in this.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Right.

Lou Quinto:

Okay. But if you're meeting the needs of an organization, but are these skills really long-term needs to an organization.

Jacqueline Martinez:

I would love that if they were, but unfortunately not everybody is reacting the same. Right? So just like individuals are reacting differently to the upheaval of the world, so are companies. And so I see some companies that aren't asking for any change in leadership that they're hiring and some companies are really changing how they approach everything they do.

Jacqueline Martinez:

And so what I'm basing, really, my thoughts on and what I'm telling you now is, one, what I'm seeing the trends and what leaders and companies are self reporting, and then also what is really needed as I hear report after report after report of organizations and companies going through all sorts of situations that require the empathy, compassion, and communication. Those things, I think that we've always needed them and, right now, it's just hitting us in the face that we really can't survive without them any longer. And so I think some companies will continue to believe in that and some companies may not.

Lou Quinto:

Right. That's interesting.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah. And it's actually really interesting because one of the things we've talked about in a few episodes is millennials, or we call them the next generation of leaders, to try and take some of that millennial phrasing out of there, and get the judgment out.

Lou Quinto:

That stereotype.

Craig Anderson:

Stereotype. As they are ... many of them entering their thirties and are probably being considered now, maybe they didn't have the executive roles, but now they're being looked at, you mentioned very early on in the conversation that people are looking at your experiences and your decisions and the things that you've done. What advice do you have for those people who are not yet into the senior leadership role, but they can see it from here? What should they be thinking about to position themselves successfully for these move up into senior leadership?

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. Thanks Craig. I could go on another tangent here and something that I'm really passionate about, but I think ... So I'll take you on a quick journey.

Craig Anderson:

Sure.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Like I said earlier, it starts with you. Know you. Get to know you, if you haven't already. Get clear on what your values are and then live those out. So in other words, walk the walk. You have to be that person, that stand up person that others can look up to or else, what is leadership? Right? You have to lead yourself first. Don't have to have direct reports to be an outstanding leader.

Jacqueline Martinez:

And then, next, I really think it's around vision. So how can you be a leader if you don't know where you're going. Right? Get your vision straight, but don't get caught up in the what, because your vision will absolutely change as you grow. And both of you I'm sure have experienced that as well.

Lou Quinto:

It should. If not, you have no growth mindset. Your fixed mindset.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah, exactly. And it's the same thing that ... with the organization. So if you have your vision straight, then you can then connect your vision to the vision of the organization and how those two things tie in. And then, at that point, you have, what is it? Ultimate high engagement. What do the smart HR people say? I should know. I'm sure you guys know.

Jacqueline Martinez:

And then, when you've done that for yourself, only then can you enlist others to do the same thing. And then, I mean, it's really a matter of just putting yourself out there if you haven't. So search for opportunities to stretch yourself. You don't lead by just sitting in your chair on the sideline. Take notice of the opportunities that come your way and jump on them.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. It's funny you say that, Jacqueline, because I had a mentor early in my career. He was the CEO of Avis Rent A Car. His name was Craig Hoenshell. And Craig told me, we were having a discussion one day and we were talking about future opportunities and things like that, and he said, "If you want to be a leader," he said, "I've got one piece of advice. Walk around an organization and pick up all the empty cans that no one else will pick up." And he said, "That will show that you're willing to go above and beyond what's in a job description. That you're willing to help people when they haven't asked for help, but you see that there's a need or an opportunity there, and you do ... " You said it perfectly, you start walking the talk. You're just not talking about leadership. You're actually being that leader. So I'm glad you reinforced that for me.

Jacqueline Martinez:

That's golden advice right there. You should write that down. [inaudible 00:14:22]

Craig Anderson:

Put that in the book, Lou.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. Okay. I'll put that in the book. Yeah.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. Put yourself in places where there are opportunities. Always be looking for ways to improve. So, I mean, alongside that, both have you know, practice relationship building. If you have friction in building relationships, or maybe it's a little strange for you, start now, because that will be crucial as you continue to move through your career journey. Practice collaborating. Building trust. Empowering others around you.

Jacqueline Martinez:

There's a book that I love that most people probably don't know about. Actually, I don't know. But as coaches and consultants, it's definitely in that realm. But I think it's amazing for leaders because it's all about individual communication and navigating through conflict, which is so big right now in the world of leadership. And it's called Nonviolent Communication and, for some reason, the author is blinking out of my head. I apologize. Maybe Marshall, but I can circle back to that. It is just outstanding what somebody is saying versus what you think they're saying. It has changed, completely, my view on communication. And that is huge for leaders right now like we've talked about at the beginning.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah. Yeah.

Lou Quinto:

We should have had Jacqueline on with John Bell. It would've made it made a great four way conversation.

Craig Anderson:

It's got to be tough and ... because we were talking about that earlier is just that idea of communicating in this medium, if you were already struggling to communicate as a leader before, then you're removed from everything, and you're having to do it this way, and looking at a hundred little faces on a screen, I can't imagine some of the challenges leaders must be facing right now. So, wow.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. And I want to model the way a little bit. So if you are a leader and you're listening or watching this, I want to encourage you. Don't look at those opportunities that you're finding, maybe friction in relationships or problems in your leadership, as discouragement. Just look at them as opportunities to get curious and opportunities for wisdom.

Jacqueline Martinez:

So the last piece that I tell up and coming leaders is to really focus on encouraging others. So individually and personally, encouragement is another high indicator of engagement at work. Right? So how you like to be recognized, though, isn't necessarily how others like to be recognized. You guys have heard of the love languages.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah.

Jacqueline Martinez:

We don't have to go down that rabbit hole, but everyone is a little different and it doesn't have to be direct reports, again, that you encourage, it can be people that you work with, people around you and it will start to become more natural to you. And it's interesting, the people in your life who probably get the least amount of encouragement and maybe need it the most, are the leaders in your life. Your leaders. So maybe start there.

Lou Quinto:

Yep. You're absolutely right.

Jacqueline Martinez:

No, I talk a lot with a lot of clients and I bring up, often, the loneliness of leadership and you always get this kind of, "Yes. That's exactly what it is." They don't really think about it, but then when you say it, it just pops in and the need to support goes both ways, a lot of times, for leaders.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. And they don't notice it, usually, until you say that.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah. It's amazing.

Jacqueline Martinez:

They're so focused on serving others, which is great, but when they're encouraged and inspired, then we are also.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah, no, that reminds me. I just got done reading Simon Sinek's book, Leaders Eat Last. And I thought that was an excellent book talking about servant leadership because, most people, unfortunately they think of leaders, the person up on top, cracking the whip or yelling and screaming out of the bull horn, "Do this. Row, row, row, row." And if you read Simon's book that leaders eat last, it just is a total reversal of the idea many people have about leadership.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. It's effective. It's what works. It's what encourages. It's, yeah. You're spot on. I love that.

Craig Anderson:

That's great.

Lou Quinto:

Yeah. Particularly, we've had past episodes where we've talked about increasing engagement and collaboration, and all of that starts at the top. And it's instilling the trust, being able to find out what makes people tick and doing a lot of homework. Coaching, giving feedback on a regular basis, which Craig and I have agreed 20, 30 times at least, where we never see a job description that has coaching in the job description. It's just the natural assumption that, as a leader, you're going to do this. Even though it's not in your job description, go ahead and do it.

Lou Quinto:

And then, at the end, there is no real measurement such that ... you hit your numbers, your productivity was up, but when it comes to, "How did you do when it comes to leading and developing your team members?" That seems to fall at the bottom of the list and usually it's just a check mark. "Yeah, you did a good ... You got a good team. They've been productive." But what have you really done to do that? So I'm glad you said that, Jacqueline.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. Yeah. I love that. When companies start to measure engagement scores and tie that to their bonuses, their productivity levels, how well they do, that's when things start circling back around. So I'm glad you said that too.

Craig Anderson:

Yeah. Great.

Lou Quinto:

Well, at this point in the episode, what we normally do is we do key takeaways. And so I'm going to start with the key takeaways. My big key takeaway is soft skills aren't soft skills anymore. They are solid skills. And I think it's something that we've talked about and we can't stress enough, but, Jacqueline, as you know as well as Craig and I do, it's a situation that, if it has to do with technical information versus a soft skill, a company will be more readily able and willing to put their money toward that technical skill and not necessarily the soft skill, but realizing that the soft skills, or solid skills, as we've called them now, is really the mortar between the bricks. It's what holds everything together.

Lou Quinto:

And if you don't have people who don't know how to deal with conflict, they don't know how to deal with good interpersonal relationships, they can't communicate well, they don't encourage collaboration, trust, empathy, compassion, those things that you did, the wall falls down. And so I'm going to ... as someone who's spent 35 years in soft skills, I'm sticking with soft skills. That's my key takeaway. Craig, what's yours?

Craig Anderson:

Well, for me, one, I'm glad to know I'm not the only Craig who has had a profound and meaningful impact on your life. That you had another one early on in your career. So it's kind of a theme for you.

Lou Quinto:

It's amazing how you keep little bits of information like that and then, all of a sudden, pull them out at the end and throw them at me.

Craig Anderson:

I made a note because it was too hard to pass up. The other one I think was really interesting is what you said is, and I've tried to tell this to people, too, early in their careers, there's always opportunities to lead. That even if you don't carry the title, leadership opportunities exist and finding the way those ... just how you hold yourself, and where you take advantage of those opportunities, and walking the walk is such a huge issue for people who have bigger aspirations down the road. So thank you for saying that. I totally agree. So. And then we'll kick it to you Jacqueline.

Lou Quinto:

And then, Jacqueline, it's your turn. What's your key takeaway?

Jacqueline Martinez:

That you guys are amazing at what you do.

Lou Quinto:

Oh, please.

Craig Anderson:

We thank you for that. We thank you for that and thank you for being on Q & A on Breakthrough Leadership today. Jacqueline is, one, also a podcast host. The Coffee to Wine Podcast and we would encourage all of you to check out that great podcast. And she is also the Director of Search and people consultant in HRD Advisory Group so thank you so much for joining us today, Jacqueline.

Lou Quinto:

How can people get in contact with you, Jacqueline?

Jacqueline Martinez:

Yeah. Easily on LinkedIn. Jacqueline Martinez.

Lou Quinto:

Okay. Perfect.

Craig Anderson:

Beautiful. All right.

Jacqueline Martinez:

Thank you both.

Craig Anderson:

Thank you, so much. Bye bye.

Lou Quinto:

Thank you, Jacqueline. Appreciate it. Well, Craig, that was a great interview with Jacqueline. I think, as we said at the beginning, we were right. We found out a lot of things that we have been talking about when it comes to attributes that companies are looking for when it comes to their leaders. So I appreciate her coming on. So we hope you've enjoyed this episode of Q & A on Breakthrough Leadership.

Lou Quinto:

If you've liked this video, please go ahead and click on the like button, share it, subscribe it with other individuals who may be in the company, they're looking for a leader, and they want to know what attributes to start looking for, Jacqueline gave us some great advice. Also, you can always find past episodes on qaleadership.com. And for those of you who'd rather listen to us, we are available on all of your favorite podcast platforms. So until next time, keep your hands washed. Keep your distance. I'm Lou Quinto.

Craig Anderson:

And I'm Craig Anderson.