An Interview with Adam Weber, Author of Lead Like a Human

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Craig P. Anderson:

Hi, welcome to Q and A on Breakthrough Leadership. I'm Craig Anderson.

Lou Quinto:

And I'm Lou Quinto.

Craig P. Anderson:

Today on the show, we are going to be talking to Adam Weber. Adam is the Chief People Officer at Emplify, and he is also the author of Lead Like a Human. It's a great book on leadership styles and leadership management. And I think Lou, we're going to find a lot of symmetry with him as we go through the interview today, don't you think?

Lou Quinto:

I think I definitely hope so. The book was very good, so I'm looking forward to seeing what Adam has to say.

Craig P. Anderson:

Absolutely. So, here we go. Let's talk to Adam Weber. Adam, welcome to Q and A on Breakthrough Leadership. We're awfully excited to have you here with us today.

Adam Weber:

Thanks Craig. Thanks Lou. I'm really happy to be here. Look forward to it.

Craig P. Anderson:

Absolutely. We have Adam here today to talk about his book Lead Like a Human, it's a great read. So Lou, why don't you get us started?

Lou Quinto:

When I first saw the book, I'm thinking, okay, Lead Like a Human or what? What was the contrast to the human? So tell me a little bit about, one, how did you write the book and how did the title come about? Lead Like a Human? There's got to be some meat to that.

Adam Weber:

Well, the what is how most other people lead, I think is the reality, is that we came from authoritarian, manufacturing, industrial revolution, World War II, top-down leadership. Generations change and what worked 30 years ago is no longer working in the workforce today. And what's happening is they've got leaders who are coming in top-down and then they're so frustrated and they haven't seen that there is a new way to lead. And so that's the whole point of the book was that, you see these people who are amazing parents and volunteers, and they live these holistic lives and then they show up to work and they start acting like a different person. They're just behaving behind the patterns of the generations before them. Simply put, to Lead Like a Human is just, it was really a permission guide to lead like your true self. That is really what it's all about.

Lou Quinto:

Okay. All right. In the book and Craig, I'll jump in real quick here, that you introduce a character that you call Frustrated Frank. Okay. And you made the comment of what we did 30 years ago doesn't work anymore. Craig and I have said, at least for the last eight, nine months that anyone who comes up and says, "Well, that's the way we've always done it," they're a dinosaur. But I think that the COVID situation has really highlighted what you mean by that, is that management has got to change, leadership style has got to change. Business models have to change. So talk to me about your Frustrated Frank, particularly when it comes to generational differences.

Adam Weber:

Right. And Frustrated Frank is a real person, actually, I was sharing earlier when I was talking to you all, I had a talk that I did, I do about 40 times a year. And the very first time I gave it, I was in Buffalo, New York. And this guy in a brown suit, white tie, I brought up a slide about Millennials and how they became the largest employer of the workforce over 35% of the time. It's even higher than that now. And he literally stands up and goes on a diatribe. His face is getting redder as he goes about, "They care more about the life than the work and the work-life balance. And they want to know the details of everything." You could almost sense this holding on nature, but what it really tapped into is that when I talk about that shift, what I really mean is that the workforce 30 years ago valued this, stability, pay and benefits.

Adam Weber:

The workforce today, values leadership authenticity, professional development, and personal growth opportunities and the purpose of the business. And so where I empathize with him was that he was still leading from a previous structure of values that weren't aligning to the values of his workforce, and that is what was causing the tension. And in many ways, I will say, by the way, not to make it all about Frank, but I think all of us on our worst days have moments of Frustrated Frank, where we're just frustrated with, Why is this not working? I am trying really hard, but it is not being received from my employees to match the level of effort that I'm putting forth. And usually it's just, we're missing each other.

Lou Quinto:

Same thing happens with parenting too.

Adam Weber:

Yeah, it's very true.

Craig P. Anderson:

So Adam, one of the things that I thought was so interesting, and I think about this as leadership is how I treat my employees and how I try and lift my employees up and lead my employees, but what I thought was so interesting in your book is you start out talking about to Lead Like a Human is first that idea of getting the centeredness for yourself and that, I had, maybe it's just because I'm not a very insightful person maybe, but where did that come from? Is that something that you learned from some of the mentors you had over time and you saw that in them? Or is that something that's worked for you or how did that come about?

Adam Weber:

That's a great question. I think a lot of it is introspection. I've had great leaders who've mentored me on this journey, but there's a surprising realization, I think, for people when they first get into leadership. And that is that it's not just about your performance, there's a subcurrent that's happening. That is like all of your own flaws, weaknesses, insecurities, childhood wounds, they all start to emerge in some way. They may not be obvious to everyone else, but there are always moments early in leadership where you are charring a field and you don't realize what you've done until after. And so I really believe to be the very best leader that you're capable of, to lead like a human, you have to be committed yourself to going on that journey of personal development too.

Adam Weber:

If the workforce values as its number one thing, authentic leaders, you have to do the work to be authentic. You can't just check a box. You actually have to do that work to go, Am I getting to know myself? Do I have rhythms in my life that create health, wellbeing and balance? If the workforce values a common steady presence, do I have disciplines that help me show up in a calm and steady way? Those are some of the tenants of it. It is a lifelong journey. I think it's one of the humbling things, I think the gift of being in leadership and I get to talk to CEOs for a living is, there is a vulnerability, there's a humility to it, there is an insecurity that everyone in leadership feels. The, Am I a fraud? And doing the work to explore what that is in your life and paying attention to it, actually does impact how you show up to your employees as well.

Craig P. Anderson:

No, that's great. We've talked before on here. One thing that I talk to a lot of leaders that I work with in my coaching business and I'll say it, and it really resonates is, leadership is a really lonely and isolating place. And you can tell that you put a finger on something that they haven't really been able to describe, but that really is there. And I think probably, from what you're saying, you probably have a better sense of that if you're actually more in touch with yourself about what's going on.

Adam Weber:

Right. Exactly.

Craig P. Anderson:

Cool. Lou?

Lou Quinto:

Adam in your work, and Craig and I have talked about this on a few different episodes, but when it comes to evaluating employees, one of the things that we've talked about is that evaluations are still numbers-oriented, meaning productivity level, sales level, meeting deadlines, meeting budgets, all of those things. Are you finding that companies are still giving lip service to that personal development side, so that as a company, I'm making an investment in you by bringing in these programs or these training opportunities for personal development, but when it comes to the actual end of the year or quarterly review, whatever it may be, I'm still finding that it's not getting that weight that you went through this, you begin to develop yourself and I'm seeing that you're using it. What are you finding?

Adam Weber:

That is a great question. And that is where that Frustrated Frank emerges, by the way. Everyone believes in that engagement and investing in your people and professional development actually leads to business outcomes until the last week of a quarter. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere that other self emerges, but the practical reality is that's what this is all about. It's creating highly engaged, highly motivated people who are willing to show up and bring their best self, is the way to create business ROI, that does lead to business outcomes. The two aren't separate.

Adam Weber:

One of the other things you said that tapped into for me is this concept of, performance management for example, we used to just talk about the what, the, Did you hit your number? The part that we leave out is the how, inside of organizations too often. Did you do it in a way that aligns to the values of this business? Did you do it in a way that perpetuates us toward our purpose? That's that next layer that acknowledges that we're not just about the what, but if you do things by the how, inside of this organization, we believe this actually will have benefit, 10 fold benefit for our business. And the numbers do back this up, by the way. If you look at a Glassdoor, did a huge research study on companies where the employees said they were engaged, and they more than 2X outperformed the average company. So you start to see pretty dramatic business increase, if you can actually tap into what motivates your workforce.

Lou Quinto:

Right. Yeah. Got to find out what makes them tick.

Adam Weber:

Exactly.

Lou Quinto:

No question about that. Particularly with the next generation of leaders coming in. We talk about Millennials, but we've got the Zoomers coming in right behind them. And the Zoomers I think are even going to take it to a... I think the Millennials will be upset with the Zoomers. So just like the Millennials upset the Boomers and the Gen Xers, I think the Zoomers are going to frustrate the Millennials. That's interesting because Craig and I have had that debate for a while about, we tell you to go through training, but we don't put any value in it or go back and reinforce that training. And it's just like a check box. Okay. You went through diversity training, you went through interpersonal relationship training and we leave it at that, and that's how we evaluate you.

Adam Weber:

Yeah. One thing- Oh, go ahead, Craig. Sorry.

Craig P. Anderson:

No, not at all. I want to hear your answer on that.

Adam Weber:

Well, one of the things I just wanted to say about generations that I think is important is, it's easy to stereotype generations as the attribute, but there's a side thing that's happening, which is that culture is evolving at the same time. Take Millennials for example, the real shift that happened is not just Millennials, it's that the smartphone came out and it changed how people view work. So it used to be, you'd fill out a resume to get a job. You'd have to work your neck, all of these things. And today, while you're at your job, you can write a review about that job. You can apply for another job you can... And so we live in glass houses, there's transparency that there wasn't in the previous generation and that transparency actually has impacted all generations. For example, Boomers, who used to think they're going to stay at their jobs for 30 years, they're staying at their jobs for five to seven years right now. This undercurrent of, everyone is now viewing work differently than they did 20 years ago as well.

Lou Quinto:

Sure. And we talk about that also. When it comes to generations, we have different perspectives. The way we grew up, events that happened in our lives that shaped it, and as you said with the cell phone coming of age when the Millennial generation was growing up, the other thing too, is I tell people when they complain about other younger generations and their work habits, as I always say, turn the mirror around on ourselves, honey, because we raised these kids. And so they learned everything from us. So you need to just turn the mirror around and go, "I'm to blame for this." I won't say entirely, but partially we are to blame for it. Yeah.

Craig P. Anderson:

Adam, in the book, you talked about employee engagement and how this idea of human-centered leadership can drive employee engagement, and there's a chart with all the different drivers. Lou and I have talked a lot about just the challenges of the shift to remote work, the world we're currently living in with COVID. I just wondered looking at that, which of those drivers are really most under pressure right now for leaders to try and really address for their employees?

Adam Weber:

Just to zoom out a little on what you're referring to, at Emplify, we're an engagement measurement company, and what we've done is we've really deconstructed, we've tried to make this concept of engagement not squishy, but really give leaders clarity on what is causing teams to not bring their best self. We look at 17 different drivers, things like trust, autonomy, leadership, availability, purpose, things like that. Number one, if I had to say one out of 17 right now, to me in this moment, I'd probably say between two, but I'm going to say psychological safety. If you think about where we were right before COVID we had a whole bunch of brand new managers who had just entered management for the first time. They didn't get the soft skill training needed to effectively cultivate and build trust on their team.

Adam Weber:

They were leading like a Frustrated Frank, and then many of them used to be able to at least resolve conflict face-to-face and now it's like, they didn't have the psychological safety to resolve conflict, to have a healthy professional development conversations, to give critical feedback, those types of things. And now there's also new technology mediums that stand as a barrier between them and their team. So if I had to say one, it would be that one, if I had to say two, it'd be fairness, which would be tied to diversity and inclusion, tied to gender in the workforce. I think that that is very prominent and it is front and center on the minds of the workforce right now as well.

Craig P. Anderson:

Yeah. That's really interesting. I wondered if it would be psychological safety just with going on, but, both of them are very interesting. What can leaders do about that right now? Some people are back in, but we're still pretty heavy. How can a human-centered leader try and address some of those concerns right now?

Adam Weber:

A great question. I think this fundamental belief that your employees likely are the holders of your answers, not you. And so if you can create that mindset and now start soliciting feedback from your team, "What are the broken processes here? What would you do if you were in my shoes?" So that's one, the other would be finding out what actually motivates your employees. Go a layer deeper on what are these factors in their life that are causing burnout, for example, which is a huge issue in the workforce. What are the factors outside of work that are impacting you right now? Take the time to get to know those.

Adam Weber:

And then a really simple one is don't start your one-on-one. When you have a one-on-one with your direct reports, make sure you let your employees have the floor first. You bring your role power and your energy and your influence and you just right away can dominate and change, and they might hold the one thing that you most needed to know that would either unlock their performance or save them from a retention risk as well.

Craig P. Anderson:

Great. Lou?

Lou Quinto:

Interesting. No, I believe in that entirely. As I always tell people, particularly when it comes to leadership, not just these days, but just leadership in general, being vulnerable. You don't have all the answers. You may have the bigger title, you may get a bigger paycheck every other week or once a month, whenever you get paid, but you don't have all the answers and you really need to expose that vulnerable side. And sometimes that leadership ego does not allow you to be vulnerable and therefore we're not open to other people's inputs and everything. And I think Craig, you and I, on a previous podcast a while ago, we even brought up the old suggestion box. Remember that used to be on the manufacturing floor, that if someone on the front line who was actually there working, they saw something that could be improved, they could go and write a suggestion and put in the suggestion box. Every level has to have that suggestion box where leaders are open to, How can I make things better? How can I improve a process? I love that, Adam. That was great.

Craig P. Anderson:

Yeah. Cool. All right. Well, we're at the point, I think, for key takeaways. Adam, we're coming to you on a key takeaway too, just to warn you.

Adam Weber:

Okay. Thank you. [crosstalk 00:17:31].

Craig P. Anderson:

But we'll make you do it last. So Lou, what's your key takeaway today?

Lou Quinto:

My key takeaway is I'm just going to pick up on what I said, that vulnerability. Leading like a human, humans are vulnerable people. They need to show compassion, they need to be empathetic. And I think if you can take old leadership traits or beliefs of what a leader was, strong, they were directive, they were in charge and take all those and throw them away, go back to, and I love the title of the book, Lead Like a Human, because it involves that compassion, empathy, vulnerability. Those are things that need to play. That's my key takeaway, Craig.

Craig P. Anderson:

Absolutely. I think mine is just thinking about some of the discussions we had about the generations. Sitting firmly in Gen X where we had some of those really Frustrated Frank type leaders. And then we're now experiencing this new way of leadership, which is far preferable for me anyway. And it's just such an interesting idea to think about how we've transformed over the years to come to the point where we're really so focused on this human-centered leadership and treating people like humans. That's what I used to tell my staff is like, why don't we start with treating them like humans and then we'll see where it goes? So, very good. All right, Adam, what's your key takeaway?

Adam Weber:

I think the key takeaway is just anyone watching, you can do this too. There is no magic formula. It is doing the work yourself. You're not going to find it in a book. If you are willing to do that work that Lou and Craig just so well just laid out right there, you will create a level of vulnerability inside of your team and you can capture their energy and your team will be able to produce great work like you haven't seen before and you will also enjoy the process yourself as well.

Craig P. Anderson:

Great. Adam, where can people find you if they want to connect with you or if they want to pick up human-centered leader? Lead Like a Human, excuse me.

Adam Weber:

That sounds like a great book too, I think a good title for the next book. On LinkedIn, if you just go to LinkedIn/MeetAdam, that's the easiest way to find me on LinkedIn. And then the book is on Amazon, it's really everywhere, but Amazon is definitely the preferred place to buy it so I can try to climb that bestseller list. And I always appreciate that. That's always a good thing. So thank you for your support.

Craig P. Anderson:

Absolutely.

Lou Quinto:

Well Adam, thanks for joining us here on Q and A on Breakthrough Leadership. We appreciate your insight and for the time that you took to write the book and I agree with you, I hope a lot of people go pick it up because that's the success that business is going to need moving forward, is leading like a human. So, thanks, Adam.

Craig P. Anderson:

Thanks Adam.

Adam Weber:

Thanks. Thank you.

Lou Quinto:

Well, Craig, that was a great interview with Adam. I'm glad that he came on Q and A on Breakthrough Leadership to talk to us about his new book, Lead Like a Human. And I can tell from all those sticky notes that you have on the side of the book that you learned something today and I hope all of you learned things as well.

Lou Quinto:

So, if you've enjoyed this episode of Q and A on Breakthrough Leadership, please like it, share it, subscribe. In addition to that, you can pick up all previous episodes on QALeadership.com. All of our episodes are available as a podcast and you can download them on all of your favorite podcast platforms.

Lou Quinto:

So until next time, keep your hands washed and keep your distance. I'm Lou Quinto.

Craig P. Anderson:

And I'm Craig Anderson.